Latest project: Renovation of the Church: What Happens When a Seeker Church Discovers Spiritual Formation (Formatio/IVP Books, May).

How would you describe your church before its renovation? 

Carlson (pictured left): Probably very similar to many larger entrepreneurial, attractional, seeker-model churches that had much of their heyday in the 1990s and early 2000s, so there was a high expectation of leadership and excellence, very influenced, of course, by Willow Creek. ... There was the assumption that success always would be reflected by increased attendance and a bigger and bigger buzz.

Lueken (pictured right): The services themselves had a high-performance quotient. … I think the other piece is we always made attempts to emphasize spiritual formation and discipleship, but in those days in the culture we had, discipleship and formation was more in a silo, as a department, for those who were interested.

How were you led to believe you were doing church the wrong way?

Lueken: The turning point for us really was a summer retreat. … We came back from that with the belief that God wanted us to begin to make some changes—we didn't know what those changes were—but begin to turn the church in a direction of genuine experiences with Jesus, which gradually became turn the church toward being a place that teaches people and trains them in how to live in the reality of God's kingdom.

Carlson: We began to talk much more and plan much more and be much more interested in the internal journey that a person has to take if they want to reorient their lives around the teachings of Christ. 

What is your vision for this book?

Carlson: There is a belief in many people that something is very seriously wrong with the church, and we've lost our ability to present the very attractive claims of Christ in a way that is engaging and calls people to some kind of conversion. If this book in any way helps that dialogue as another signpost on the way, then we're thrilled with that.

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